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Slips and Forms


#1

I am just so impressed with the new T1 Workflow that I would like a comparable on for Slips and Forms as well.

I would an enhanced workflow for T2’s first in 2018-2019.

I would an enhanced workflow for slips and forms second in 2019-2020. In fact, I would like slips and forms expanded substantially with new forms.

I would an enhanced workflow for T3 Returns third in 2020-2021 - special versions for Testamentary Trusts, Private Family Trusts, Charitable Trusts, etc.

Then I would like better integration between Slips and Forms and the various tax returns - T1, T2, T3.


#2

In Slips and Forms workflow I would like a substantial enhancement to marital status, child custody, child support, spousal support.

It can be surprising how much time and effort goes into submitting, proving, tracking, and explaining to clients the cash flow impact of marital status change, child custody change, and annual child custody proof of claim, allowable child claims, child tax benefits received federally and provincially, additional child supports received provincially, and, spousal and child support payments.

A very messy file, with a contentious separation or divorce, complex living arrangements, and, complex child care needs, can take up to a week of effort to document, file, and tax over a prolonged period of cascading adjustments which can take up to 6 or 9 months to assess, adjust, and receive tax or benefit payment or tax bill/claw back. All the while the tax preparer is calmly reassuring a very stressed tax client who is experiencing one of the worst times in their life. These problems are compounded when dealing with children with ADD or physical/mentally disabilities.

A similar but surprisingly less complicated workflow would be needed for the care of elderly and infirm family members. CRA request intermittent documentary proof through post assessment review.

I would like to see the addition of the following related forms -
RC325 - Address change request.
RC65 - Marital Status Change.
T1158 - Registration of Family Support Payments.

For marital status for tax purposes we need to track the following.

  1. Physical Address history.

  2. Mailing Address history.

  3. Date of physical change of marital status.

  4. Date of legal change of marital status.

  5. Date of tax change of marital status.
    This is not the same as date in #4. You can be legally separated or divorced. However, if you reside in the same dwelling with your former spouse you are considered still married or newly common-law for tax purposes.

  6. Sole vs Joint custody.

  7. Joint custody - # days and % of time each child resided with each parent.

  8. Child claims - Eligible dependent - who claims which child. Signed letter on file.

  9. Child claims - Child care - who claims which child. Tax receipts on file.

  10. Disability Tax Credit Certificate - who applied for and who has control of the DTC application and tax credit certificate.

  11. Child claims - Medical Line 330 and 331 - who claims the medical expenses paid for family and who claims for medical expenses for another.

  12. Child Benefits Tracking - confirming workflow for the updated child benefits.

  13. Child Disability Benefits Tracking - confirming workflow for the updated child disability benefits federally.

  14. Child Disability Benefits Tracking - confirming workflow for the updated child disability benefits provincially.
    http://www.humanservices.alberta.ca/disability-services.html

  15. Child Care Subsidy Tracking - confirming workflow for the updated child care subsidy.
    Alberta Child Care Subsidy
    http://www.humanservices.alberta.ca/financial-support/15104.html


#3

Forms and Workflow re Residency Tracking.

This can be a complex area involving place of birth, legal citizenship, dual or multiple citizenship claims, physical residency due to school or temporary work, and/or multiple changes.

These changes affect the family’s tax returns.

They are hard to document and even harder to track.

For the student, it affects the taxable status in the country in which they are going to school, taking an internship, or taking a fellowship.

For the student, it affects their taxable status and residency status in Canada.

For the family it can affect transferable tax credits and definitely affects the family cash flow.

Consider the Congolese father. The Polish mother. The parents were married in Poland. The child born in Poland with Polish citizenship. The family moved to Canada and obtained Canadian citizenship. The bright child won a full ride to a USA university. The bright child is living in Geneva at an unpaid UN internship. The bright child will return to the USA for a full ride in International Law. All the while the child is filing Canadian tax returns and trying to establish Canadian residency status.

Consider the Canadian mother of German ancestry with dual Canadian and German citizenship. The clever mother completed her university education at the Sorbonne and worked professionally in Paris. She had two daughters with her common law spouse. She separated and returned to Canada when her daughters were still in elementary school. Her children have dual Canadian and French citizenship. Her bright daughter has completed her University education at Sorbonne. She is completing her masters. Then she will take her professional designation in France. All the while she if filing Canadian and French tax returns.

These multi-country tax returns are becoming more and more complex as the years go by. At some point in the future it would be helpful to consider expanding the forms, elections, and workflow to include some aspect of these matters.


#4

Suspect that these are well beyond the scope of what might reasonably be expected in “tax preparation” software. Agree that tracking CRA’s extremely deficient and S-L-O-W processes is annoying, but there are other forms of software adapted for doing that - case management software for lawyers eg, or a Helpdesk system (eg Freshdesk) which can be readily adapted to a different use.


#5

@donhobs

Thank you for your suggestion. I am planning to start with KarbonHQ for workflow and client management from incorporation and bookkeeping through to tax prep.

Once I grow I plan to add proper Practice Management. Looking at Thompson Reuters for consideration for next year.

I will look at how I can handle this each app.


#6

I agree @donhobs. We already have software that we developed in house for our T1 tracking and we have other software that tracks our corporate work. I would rather that the focus be on the tax functions in the software and on DoxCycle, rather than trying to incorporate a full fledged project tracking system.


#7

Just went to the Alan Salmon seminar again this year, on November 1st…

Seeing there what Wolters Kluwer is doing with their CCH Itax, and what Thomson Reuters is doing with the DT Max family, I think it is totally reasonable for Trilogy to build out their product suite to compete, when the time is right, and I think their team is fully capable of doing so without it hurting either Taxcycle and Doxcycle.

With the maturing of Client Manager, it only needs a few more additions for that to function as a full fledge practice management system. They already have time tracking, and much of the engagement tracking. Add some contact management features and voila!

Also, with the progress made recently on Doxcycle, to be released soon, it is not a pipedream to extend their suite into working paper preparation, and give Caseware/Jazz-It a run for their money… Working papers does not have to be that complicated…

But, as I say, when the timing is right.


#8

@BertMulderCGA

Well and clearly stated.

That is what I was beating around the bush about. The underlying data architecture and presentation layer of TaxCycle is so superior to the legacy apps that I see a possibility to expand and extent existing features in an orderly progression over a number of years. Thereby providing much of what is needed for solo practitioners and micro firms of 2 to 5 preparers with respect to Tax Practice, Workflow, and Checklist Management.

Bookkeeping apps would remain in place.

Tax preparation workflow and checklists could be enhanced and implemented across all modules, slips, and forms.

Interconnecting tax prep workflow and resultant data could be interconnected at a summary level for stronger integration.

Import and export functionality could be enhanced to provide a bridge between standalone Excel and full Financial Statement Working Papers.

Time and billing functionality could be enhanced to provide and export or import bridge using Excel/csv.

All this could be developed slowly over time, and, based upon competitive analysis and business needs.


#9

post removed by contributor.


#10

@donhobs
@matthew

I know that I can add Financial Statement Working Papers such as Caseware or Wolters Kluwer CCH, Practice Management such as Wolters Kluwer CCH or Thomson Reuters Canada.

For a solo practitioner these are mega expensive, complex, and take time to implement.

I am starting with bookkeeping workflow using Karbon-HQ with 17Hats for email automation.

I plan on adding Thomson Reuters Practice in a year or two.

Was hoping to avoid the need to add Caseware to scale.


#11

I believe you can edit your posts in this forum. Underneath your reply you may see a few small icons, a heart (like this post), a chain link (share a link to this post), and a pencil (edit post). If you click on the pencil you should be able to make edits to your post.

2017-11-08_19-06-19


#12

Thank you. Got it.


#13

Are we really going down this discussion again where a TAX PREPARATION calculator is supposed to be all things to all people, make the tea, serve the cookies?
… Preparing a T1 is going to cost a mere $999,999 soon… :wink:


#14

Joe, am not talking here about making Taxcycle brew my coffee, nor even do my practice management. I am however talking of having Trilogy Software provide me with a better practice management system than I currently have. As a separate product.


#15

I am good with it if it is a separate project that they want to develop. But to me, it was sounding like this was being asked for in the Tax Suite.

Having looked at a few different workflow solutions, I think it would be hard to find one product that would be suited for T1 prep and all of the other work we do. As a result, we have developed our own system for T1 season. All it does it track the T1s from last year (plus the new ones) through the various milestones to completion, exit and efile. It’s not fancy, but it is simple enough that everyone in the office will actually keep it up to date. For us that is the most important thing as there are so many ‘little’ projects going through the office at that time it would be a nightmare using the system that works for us for year end file work.

@BertMulderCGA mentioned the CCH product. When we used TaxPrep, they had a very complex client manager system. We never used it because it didn’t fit our flow or give us the information we wanted. For us, what we get from the current Client Manager in TaxCycle does the job for us.


#16

@BertMulderCGA

Like your idea about a separate module. It could be like Forms or DoxCycle, an add-on the keep pricing streamlined for those who want more basic functionality.

For those who in between users for who want a tax only practice management a module that is fully integrated with TaxCycle would be preferable.

This would be much faster to implement for users.

Less training and lower cost than a third party Tax Practice Management App.

A competitive advantage for Trilogy when compared with current offers.

And, a response to the efforts of Wolters Kluwer and Thomson Reuters, both of whom have full practice management add-ons.


#17

@BertMulderCGA

I have been monitoring both Wolters Kluwer and Thomson Reuters offers for several years now. (Didn’t go ahead with either for family care reasons - no time and brain cycles to implement major practice change.)

Each offers a great solution and is well integrated with other apps and offers.

Each has a considerable price tag, especially for implementation consulting. Each requires a huge implementation effort = cost a lot and loose a week or three in billable hours. Each seems to have a good payback for profitable practices with good volume. The challenge for a small practice is how to scale from a few returns to hundreds or thousands of returns.

At the 100+ returns stage it can get challenging to manage tax returns with simple solutions such as excel, general workflow apps, and/or simple practice management apps.

At the 350+ returns stage a full blown practice management suite is usually cost justifiable.

I think that Trilogy can create an excellent product to fit the niche of small firm with high value clients, complex clients, and/or too many clients to manage easily with simpler, less expensive apps. Of course this would be a business decision for Trilogy to make. The app could be sold as an add-on.

In the meantime Trilogy could explore this area by augmenting the existing workflow functionality of the various modules, similar to the excellent expansion in T1.

As far as this niche market is concerned, in Canada, I know of Client Track and TPS software which fit the simpler, less expensive apps niche, Client Track and TPS Software. I think that Trilogy can come up with a better offer customized for tax only and integrated with TaxCycle and DoxCycle.

http://www.clienttrack.ca/

I also think that it is inevitable that Tax Practices automate due to the change in demographics of our client base.